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  • #18292
    Ralph Spracklin
    CVRS Member

    DeForest Crosley, Kent (Rogers10-58)

    I picked up this “Kent” model radio, a couple of days ago. The cabinet is in great condition. Picture speaks for itself. However this model should only be a five tube set, with the following Tube line-up. (80, 6H7, 6B7, 88M, 6A7. and inside the radio cabinet is the tube layout sticker reflecting this as the proper line-up. But, as I got into working on it, I discover that this chassis is actually a six tube model with a different tube lineup, which is as follows. ( 88M, 6A7, 88M, 6B7, 6F6, 80) I’ve spent hours trolling to find another Kent with a different chassis upgrade, but that too, does not seem to exist. And to be honest, this radio does, both from the standpoint of the cabinet and the chassis, seem to be factory original. After much searching I have found a schematic for a Rogers Connought Ten-60, which seems to fit the bill wiring/schematic-wise, but even then, the physical tube layout does not match either of thes chematics as to position of some of the tubes on the actual set, which has an extra #88 tube???? The ironical thing is that the parts list (caps and resistors) for both models are 100 percent identical.(No less or no more parts, even though there is one extra tube???) This seems to be a rare bird indeed. Also look at the ID Tag on the chassis, it too is confusing.

    Apparently , the wet 20/20 electrolytic capacitor exploded, blowing its cap partly off and spilling hard wax like substance over all nearby parts and tubes, And also the steel wire that operates the tuning condenser, assembly, is snapped and that also does not seem to be an easy fix.

    NOTE: Asbestos insulator was free:

    This is not going to be an easy chassis restoration as most of the resistors and capacitors are unique in that they have been wired/hardwired on to two circuit board, which are not easy to access. Also lots of deteriorating rubber wiring used in this one. Woe is me, already on this restoration.
    And Dan, if I am correct, you yourself restored one of those Kent models a few years back. What kind of headaches did you run into?

    Regards

    Ralph

    #18299
    Dan Walker
    CVRS Member

    Ralph;
    I did one of these radio some time ago and I don’t think I had a lot of problems.
    I do know that one one of these [maybe it was the Buckingham] I had to restring the tuning dial assembly with the thin
    metal wire. It was a bit of a chore,but I believe that all the wire was there and it had just broke,
    so I knew how it was supposed to go back together. Either way it is a bit of a challenge.
    The models 10-57,,,10-58 and 10-59 are supposed to be the same radio.
    If you have the RCC disk it is page 7, 1, and 12

    As you say , some of the caps are on boards,and you can usually take out the screws that hold the boards in place,
    and kind of bend the boards a bit to get at the caps. I cut the old caps off as close to the cap as I can. then make a J hook and hook the new cap to it.
    Hook and solder the bottom first then do the top portion.
    Here is a photo of my rogers 10-12 showing the caps on a board.
    good Luck
    Dan in Calgary

    #18301
    Ralph Spracklin
    CVRS Member

    Hello Dan and All

    As I get into the part of cleaning this chassis, contrary to my original thoughts has indeed been worked on. But I think by a very capable technician. The chassis that came with this radio, is indeed the original chassis as confirmed by the picture of the chassis tag I posted for the “Kent”, which is a Deforest Crosley 77/ Rogers Ten 58. However, it has indeed been modified. A new hole was drilled and an extra 6C5 Tube was added. And the Output Tube was changed to a 6F6, which may not have been too hard to do. I think I may go by the original schematic and change it back to its original design, and plug the socket hole. There is, of course, still the possibility that I will find other changes or modifications. This radio is too nice a radio to not be in working condition.
    And Dan, the Cap and Resistor boards seem much tighter space wise, and harder to work on than your picture shows on your model. There are still some unansered qestions, but it is what it is,

    Ralph

    #18316
    Ralph Spracklin
    CVRS Member

    Trust me when I say that installing a new tuning string on some Rogers Majestic vintage radios, is not a walk in the park. Some of those models are indeed “A Nightmare on Elm Street” There are still thousands of such radios as these out there, some with broken tuning strings. Actually those tuning condensers are themselves direct drive when using the tuning control, and yes, without the tuning string properly in place, the radio will still work, except one cannot tune in to the radio station they desire to listen to, without having to search the hard way. It’s like driving blindfolded, you don’t know where you are, or where you are going.

    As I mentioned on my original post on this radio, that the wire string that operates the tuning condenser assembly and dial, was broken. Yesterday I started to repair it. First I removed the complete tuning assembly, from the chassis. The broken tuning wire was a tangled mess, but the biggest problem was that I did not have a proper replacement for it, and no diagram how to replace it. I cleaned out all the remaining pieces as I pondered how to go about it. Upon examination of the old string, I discovered it was made of copper and two linen strands, which I suppose were meant to make it less likely to snap, a reinforcement if you will. All together there was forty two strands of very fine, hair like, copper wire. This is what makes it so pliable. Not certain what AWG (gauge) of copper wiring was used. I knew I was not going to find a replacement string for a eighty-six year old radio, so I knew right away I would have to fabricate my own.

    I had some very thin airline cable, stainless-steel but it was a lot more stiff than the original copper string. I did however have a roll of 32 AWG transformer winding wire, which while very thin, was still much thicker than the copper strands used in the original drive string.

    Anyway, I counted out about twenty, three-foot lengths of off this 32 AWG wire, wrapped one end of it around a screw I had put on the edge of my workbench. I pulled all strands taut, when I realized this new line is going to be too thick for the job. I reduced the number of strands down to ten, and pulled those strands taut, twisted the other end of ten strands tight, and bent the ends over a few times and inserted it in the chuck of my cordless drill. In less than a half a minute I had a newly twisted copper drive string, which resembled a guitar string. While it was indeed soft and flexible, it was not as flexible as the original copper dial string, and it was also a bit heavier/thicker than the original. That did not bother me as I never reinforced it with linen thread. I figured the extra thickness would help compensate for the lack of the linen thread. This new copper tuning string, was now ready for a trial run.

    I spent a couple of hours trying to determine how the tuning assembly worked, and I am satisfied that I pull this one off. So armed with a roll of tape some long thin needle-nose-pliers and a small thin screwdriver I am ready to take the plunge and get this show on the road.

    The last owner of this radio had it for about forty years. I think he said his boys attempted to repair the broken tuning string. I also noticed that the rotating dial plate had some dents and dings in it, and it also looked like a course sandpaper was used on it. So I will also have to repair that and repaint it. Will keep you posted on the new dial string replacement. There are lots of obstructions on this tuning assembly, so, as I said this is not going to be a walk in the park.

    Ralph

    #18325
    Dan Walker
    CVRS Member

    Ralph; Here is a link to a video ,that you probably will find helpful with your restoration.
    I hope it helps some

    Dan in Calgary

    #18336
    Ralph Spracklin
    CVRS Member

    Well I’m moving ahead on this tuning assembly. After four tries using my home made fabricated copper tuning cables, I gave up on that approach, and reverted back to fabricating one from four strands of stainless airline cable. It is stiffer than the original cable but I am certain, much stronger. I ran into a secondary problem also, when re-threading the new cable(s) I noticed that the cable take-up on the lower pulley wheel did not line up straight with the cable as it was feed from the pins on the cable guide, which was causing the cable itself to cris-cross over itself, causing the assembly to bind as one turned the dial. I finished re-doing the cable today. This was an original factory problem. I solved the problem by moving the cable guide further down the bracket to which it was attached. I done this by drilling two new holes, and reattaching the bracket with two screws and nuts. (See Photo Below) I also epoxyed a small piece of bushing over each of the two pins on the cable guide. This to compensate for the thicker/stronger stainless cable, so that it did not have to bend so much as it rounded the pins. It all works very smoothly now.

    As I said in an earlier post, the dial face was dented and scratched and needed filling and painting. I done the repair with auto-body filler and re-sprayed it black. Looks like new now. Over all it took more time than I planned. But it was a learning experience, and I can just about do it with my eyes closed, should I have to do it again. I have also rewired it all, as the original wiring on the tuning assembly was badly deteriorated .

    Note: What are those two Red components shown in the wiring diagram below. They don’t seem to me to be original. I have not seen them before. Are they just some kind of added connector?

    Regards
    Ralph

    #18337
    Ralph Spracklin
    CVRS Member

    Sorry, but the pictures would not up-load.Got a notice that there was some sort of faliure with the Canadian Vintage Site???? I will try again.

    #18343
    Tony F
    Forum Participant

    Hello Ralph. Those connectors are modern 3M scotch “butt” connectors. They are used a lot in trailer wiring and automotive applications. Someone in the past has obviously used them to connect the various wires. You will have to trace them back, to see if there are components actually missing or just to extend the wire. Good job so far. Tony

    https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/313619O/3m-scotchlok-family-brochure.pdf

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Tony F.
    #18345
    Ralph Spracklin
    CVRS Member

    Hello Tony, I kind of thought they were just some sort of connetor. They had the look of more modern technology and material. It seems that someone used them just to make power connections to the 6.3 Volt supply to the dial lamps. I have not traced it all yet, but it may be the point where he tapped off for the filament voltage for the added 6C5 tube. Anyway thanks for responding and so fast.

    Ralph

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